(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go:12.020]
SZ[19]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[ManyFaces2]
PW[Zen19]
DT[2010-11-07]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[7.5]
TM[1740]
RU[Chinese]
RE[B+Resign]
WR[3d]
OT[25/60 Canadian]
C[ManyFaces2 [-\]: GTP Engine for ManyFaces2 (black): Many Faces \
of Go version 12 (2002, 2008, 2010 world champion), playing at \
level 1 dan. Uses Many Faces' knowledge combined with Monte Carlo \
evaluation. Free evaluation download at www.smart-games.com. \
iPhone/iPod Igowin app has this full engine.
Zen19 [3d\]: GTP Engine for Zen19 (white): Zen version 6.4]
CA[UTF-8];B[pd]BL[1738.463];W[dp]WL[1728.078];B[cd]BL[1734.758];W[pp]WL[1720.632];B[nq]BL[1730.039];W[kp]WL[1705.004];B[no]BL[1726.801];W[oq]WL[1689.427]
;B[pn]BL[1718.866];W[ic]WL[1672.304];B[fc]BL[1713.946];W[qf]WL[1657.256];B[nc]BL[1713.764];W[lc]WL[1642.274];B[cn]BL[1700.206];W[rd]WL[1631.542];B[qc]BL[1689.877];W[on]WL[1624.038]
;B[oo]BL[1683.112];W[po]WL[1612.706];B[om]BL[1674.158];W[qn]WL[1597.276];B[nn]
C[quicksand [1d\]: good start for mf]
BL[1666.991];W[pl]
C[juhop [2d?\]: now invasion please]
WL[1580.495];B[fp]BL[1648.764];W[dn]WL[1564.501];B[dm]BL[1630.904];W[en]WL[1556.665]
;B[co]BL[1619.585];W[em]WL[1548.377];B[do]BL[1610.978];W[ip]WL[1532.012];B[eo]BL[1601.668];W[dl]WL[1515.501];B[cm]BL[1591.725];W[gn]
C[juhop [2d?\]: looks good for mf so far i think]
WL[1507.268];B[ho]BL[1576.417];W[go]WL[1493.121]
;B[hp]BL[1569.125];W[gp]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: e7 was awful]
WL[1479.083];B[gq]BL[1559.541];W[hq]WL[1471.926];B[fr]BL[1537.952];W[io]WL[1457.243];B[hr]BL[1530.75];W[iq]WL[1448.287];B[nk]BL[1513.2];W[lk]WL[1434.431]
;B[oj]
C[juhop [2d?\]: hmm, now i don't understand what is happening]
BL[1491.587];W[of]WL[1418.786];B[qj]
C[quicksand [1d\]: zen will try to kill ur]
BL[1478.771];W[rc]WL[1405.16];B[rb]BL[1471.037];W[mb]WL[1392.646];B[md]BL[1453.107];W[mf]WL[1378.33];B[ld]BL[1437.956];W[nb]WL[1363.339]
;B[ob]BL[1422.86];W[pb]WL[1351.476];B[oa]BL[1415.097];W[pi]WL[1337.459];B[pj]BL[1407.293];W[qb]WL[1323.701];B[jd]BL[1396.059];W[id]WL[1309.454];B[jc]BL[1387.534];W[jb]WL[1296.04]
;B[kb]BL[1380.796];W[kc]WL[1282.325];B[ib]BL[1373.789];W[ja]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: L16 looks good to me]
WL[1275.081];B[ia]BL[1349.5];W[kd]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: funny]
WL[1265.453];B[je]BL[1342.652];W[ke]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: both werent very keen on L16]
WL[1257.855];B[jf]BL[1332.717];W[kf]WL[1250.284]
;B[qm]BL[1317.112];W[jg]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: r7 is not were the music plays]
WL[1236.809];B[qo]BL[1298.749];W[if]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: a little sad for b, b had good momentum]
WL[1226.224];B[ka]BL[1275.807];W[rn]WL[1219.252];B[ro]BL[1254.652];W[rp]WL[1212.574];B[sn]
C[quicksand [1d\]: b is really overconcentrated on the right
quicksand [1d\]: so many stones]
BL[1242.842];W[qp]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: t6 is bad style]
WL[1199.64]
;B[so]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: and so is t5 :-)]
BL[1227.805];W[sp]
C[juhop [2d?\]: :)
Tsuijin [2d\]: lol]
WL[1187.19];B[rm]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: now k18]
BL[1212.577];W[gb]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: hm]
WL[1177.861];B[ie]BL[1196.27];W[he]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: w mistake imo]
WL[1171.249];B[jb]BL[1188.943];W[hg]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: cant kill]
WL[1162.163];B[hd]BL[1178.985];W[gd]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: lost the squuze and still has a nasty cut]
WL[1155.382]
;B[hc]BL[1170.199];W[ee]
C[Tsuijin [2d\]: white is going all moyo]
WL[1148.533];B[ra]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: h16 was counter- antisuji]
BL[1147.555];W[pc]WL[1137.48];B[qd]BL[1138.359];W[od]WL[1124.833];B[ge]BL[1129.224];W[ce]WL[1114.822];B[be]BL[1120.014];W[cf]WL[1107.453]
;B[hf]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: c14 is crude]
BL[1108.892];W[gg]WL[1099.868];B[ig]BL[1079.762];W[ih]
C[quicksand [1d\]: it is actually a very crude game so far, just \
looking at the board]
WL[1091.324];B[bf]
C[Hannoskaj [?\]: What would have been the right move instead of \
c14?]
BL[1051.463];W[dd]WL[1076.73];B[cc]BL[1040.683];W[ch]WL[1069.546];B[cj]BL[1019.309];W[ck]WL[1054.956]
;B[dj]BL[1010.931];W[bk]WL[1042.719];B[el]BL[999.403];W[fl]WL[1036.36];B[ek]BL[991.773];W[bj]WL[1024.274];B[fk]BL[977.658];W[gl]WL[1014.061];B[dk]BL[967.127];W[cl]WL[1002.067]
;B[bi]
C[quicksand [1d\]: b12]
BL[954.335];W[bh]WL[989.119];B[ci]BL[945.571];W[ai]
C[eccentric: i dont see black surviving]
WL[981.674];B[dh]BL[938.088];W[dg]WL[974.165];B[eh]BL[928.228];W[fi]WL[966.988];B[gk]BL[912.886];W[hl]WL[959.786]
;B[ff]BL[900.483];W[fg]WL[947.431];B[eg]BL[883.071];W[ef]WL[940.346];B[bm]BL[867.805];W[fe]WL[934.07];B[ei]BL[852.667];W[fj]WL[922.56];B[fh]BL[842.695];W[gi]WL[916.339]
;B[hk]BL[827.986];W[ik]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: nice fight]
WL[905.01];B[ij]BL[820.992];W[hj]WL[898.804];B[il]BL[807.061];W[jk]WL[892.571];B[fn]BL[800.93];W[bd]
C[eccentric: ??
gogonuts [5d\]: w fails]
WL[886.022];B[bc]BL[786.983];W[gf]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: f7 impossible]
WL[872.076]
;B[nr]BL[769.816];W[dc]
C[eccentric: so black had f7 all the while]
WL[859.805];B[rr]
C[quicksand [1d\]: over]
BL[761.643];W[qr]WL[846.546];B[pr]BL[755.519];W[or]
C[qQQp [-\]: f7, then what?
gogonuts [5d\]: b had f7 after w cut at h10]
WL[833.844];B[qs]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: h10 doesnt work
quicksand [1d\]: f7 h7]
BL[745.965];W[pq]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: atari]
WL[821.39];B[qq]BL[740.041];W[sr]
C[qQQp [-\]: f7 h7 g7]
WL[809.633]
;B[os]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: h6 :-)
eccentric: snapback]
BL[732.409];W[rs]WL[796.943];B[op]
C[qQQp [-\]: ah!]
BL[726.427];W[rq]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: more bad news]
WL[783.687];B[sq]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: its over]
BL[720.721];W[lm]WL[770.812];B[fm]
C[eccentric: many faces is zen's butcher]
BL[713.9];W[gm]WL[758.314];B[hi]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: mf wins in many cases]
BL[704.718];W[gh]WL[745.989]
;B[gj]BL[697.159];W[gc]WL[733.891];B[db]BL[685.365];W[ej]WL[721.971];B[di]BL[678.371];W[eb]WL[709.993];B[bg]BL[663.069];W[cg]WL[698.211];B[ag]BL[652.765];W[ah]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: s12?]
WL[686.5]
;B[rh]BL[639.98];W[cb]WL[674.823];B[bb]BL[634.559];W[rg]WL[663.363];B[ca]
C[joxn [-\]: finally MF thinks >80% probability]
BL[625.069];W[ri]WL[652.057];B[qi]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: thats actually more like 95%
joxn [-\]: b j8 was the big jump]
BL[617.211];W[qh]WL[640.781];B[ph]BL[611.933];W[sh]WL[629.762]
;B[nh]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: J8 pulverized zen, zen should have seen that coming]
BL[604.92];W[pg]
C[joxn [-\]: after which, steadily increasing percentages]
WL[618.823];B[oi]
C[eccentric: many faces doesnt have dynamic komi?]
BL[593.273];W[jj]
C[joxn [-\]: Yes, MF has dynamic komi]
WL[608.124];B[bq]
C[eccentric: so why is the % 80 and not 50?]
BL[586.159];W[rj]WL[597.327];B[rk]BL[579.938];W[mh]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: it was explained to us that it only uses dk in \
handicap openings]
WL[586.569];B[mi]BL[576.962];W[li]
C[joxn [-\]: plus you don't want your dynamic komi to force you \
to take risks when you've already really won]
WL[576.178]
;B[kr]BL[573.91];W[jr]WL[565.921];B[ir]BL[570.915];W[kq]WL[555.763];B[js]BL[567.904];W[jq]WL[545.483];B[lr]
C[joxn [-\]: 93%]
BL[564.808];W[mj]WL[535.394];B[ni]BL[561.804];W[if]WL[525.572]
;B[he]BL[558.787];W[sk]WL[515.86];B[sl]BL[555.888];W[ii]WL[506.246];B[ng]BL[552.976];W[nl]WL[496.669];B[ol]BL[550.09];W[nf]WL[487.107];B[mg]BL[547.183];W[pe]WL[477.634]
;B[lh]BL[544.378];W[kh]WL[468.442];B[lg]BL[541.568];W[ea]WL[459.409];B[lf]BL[538.724];W[hj]WL[450.453];B[em]BL[535.937];W[le]WL[441.388];B[im]BL[533.039];W[hn]WL[432.517]
;B[ml]
C[ThePok [?\]: yyeah
joxn [-\]: I think the story of the butcher is Taoist, not Zen?
eccentric: go many!
gogonuts [5d\]: 93% of playouts means that its very close to 100%
joxn [-\]: yes
terrymac [6k\]: I wonder what happened in the other 7% of the \
playouts? 
joxn [-\]: Unless there's a very tricky semeai
joxn [-\]: >80% usually means "I won this game"
quicksand [1d\]: zen seems to be better optimized against humans \
than against bots
gogonuts [5d\]: right, only a systematic missread can lose it
qQQp [-\]: The upper left may die in random plyouts
joxn [-\]: 60-70% is the danger zone
terrymac [6k\]: about the only way to lose was to fail to play \
E7 and let w capture the big group
joxn [-\]: in the long tournament MF was consistently in the high \
60s in its game vs Zen
terrymac [6k\]: oic, upper left is a little bit tricky for random \
playouts
joxn [-\]: while all the commentators were sure the game was swinging \
back and forth
qQQp [-\]: it was hard to read in the middle game
joxn [-\]: since I trust the commentators more than the machine, \
I conclude that 60% doesn't mean much
qQQp [-\]: i clearly failed :(
terrymac [6k\]: so what is MFgo using now for this game?
terrymac [6k\]: how many cores, etc?
joxn [-\]: 12 cores, 24 GB
ThePok [?\]: and zen runs on an smartphone!
terrymac [6k\]: for the tournament? I hope not. 
ThePok [?\]: ;D
ThePok [?\]: just kidding
joxn [-\]: 2x2.67 GHz Xeon X5650
joxn [-\]: they should make a smartphone tournament
joxn [-\]: MF runs on iPhone
joxn [-\]: fotland is porting to Android, too
joxn [-\]: "Igowin" in the apps store
joxn [-\]: with an iPad edition for 19x19
terrymac [6k\]: next year, I hope I can get MFGo on an android \
pad 
joxn [-\]: have to talk to the hardware manufacturers ... the \
software will be there most likely
fotland [?\]: hi, just got back from brunch]
BL[530.245])
