(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go:12.020]
SZ[19]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[ManyFaces2]
PW[SimpleBot]
DT[2010-10-13]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[7.5]
TM[43200]
RU[Chinese]
RE[B+Resign]
WR[21k]
C[ManyFaces2 [-\]: GTP Engine for ManyFaces2 (black): Many Faces \
of Go version 12 (2008 world champion), playing at level 1 kyu \
(19x19), 4 Dan (9x9). Uses Many Faces' knowledge combined with \
Monte Carlo evaluation. Free evaluation download at www.smart-games.com. \
iPhone/iPod Igowin app has this full engine.
SimpleBot [21k?\]: GTP Engine for SimpleBot (white): Zen version \
6.3]
CA[UTF-8];B[pd]BL[43174.953];W[cd]WL[43034.527];B[pp]BL[43134.801];W[dp]WL[42735.68];B[ed]BL[43090.41];W[gc]WL[42637.18];B[fe]BL[43033.004];W[ge]WL[42227.098]
;B[gf]BL[43032.617];W[qj]WL[41946.051];B[fp]BL[42919.32];W[en]WL[41847.516];B[dc]BL[42622.344];W[iq]
C[Freedom23 [3d\]: ....]
WL[41522.945];B[gn]BL[42443.844];W[go]WL[41285.766];B[fo]BL[42303.387];W[fn]WL[40963.129]
;B[ho]BL[42161.297];W[gm]WL[40641.832];B[gp]BL[42028.117];W[im]WL[40543.879];B[jo]BL[41816.773];W[lq]WL[40445.426];B[hq]BL[41642.414];W[pq]WL[40347.199];B[oq]BL[41420.242];W[he]WL[40248.727]
;B[qq]BL[41181.793];W[qf]WL[40149.383];B[mc]BL[40906.895];W[qc]WL[40050.094];B[qd]BL[40736.129];W[pc]WL[39732.016];B[oc]
C[joxn [-\]: # b r16 : 53.4% win]
BL[40575.434];W[rd]WL[39351.824];B[re]BL[40430.547];W[ob]WL[39245.609]
;B[nd]BL[40258.73];W[ip]WL[38891.645];B[io]BL[40041.652];W[rc]WL[38574.594];B[qe]BL[39884.246];W[ff]WL[38259.059];B[ef]BL[39732.152];W[fg]WL[37946.535];B[eg]BL[39580.227];W[fd]WL[37626.434]
;B[ee]
C[joxn [-\]: maybe long think times are making MF more optimistic
joxn [-\]: 55%
joxn [-\]: I don't see it
joxn [-\]: of course, I'm really bad
gghideki [2k\]: lol 52.3%]
BL[39429.152];W[fh]WL[37459.652];B[nb]BL[39269.688];W[ci]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Um, 53%...]
WL[37197.242];B[cf]
C[joxn [-\]: neither of them know what's going on
gghideki [2k\]: W is pretty thin
gghideki [2k\]: everywhere
joxn [-\]: okay
pacopaco: seems the bots are using mroe time today
joxn [-\]: different bots
joxn [-\]: MF still cutting things a little short
pacopaco: you made changes during break?
joxn [-\]: I didn't mean to imply that
joxn [-\]: I don't think MF is using any more time than last game
joxn [-\]: it's just that Zen is a different opponent, and it \
is using more time
joxn [-\]: plus there was that weirdness where Mogo had lots of \
disconnects
pacopaco: but it's not like many cares about the opponent
joxn [-\]: no, but it will use different amounts of time depending \
on what kind of board situation it is in
gghideki [2k\]: Yes, Zen too
joxn [-\]: but also, I know that fotland changed the time control \
code to be more conservative, before the ICGO
pacopaco: i see
gghideki [2k\]: Oh
pacopaco: well this should be the game of the tournament :)
pacopaco: last game vs mogo was pretty cool too
gghideki [2k\]: Zen's hardware is different]
BL[39106.496];W[bg]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Zen just uses 5 cores
joxn [-\]: what hardware is Zen using?
gghideki [2k\]: 5 of 6 cores of 4 GHz W3680
joxn [-\]: why only 5 cores?
gghideki [2k\]: Making similar total clocks of Yamato's MacPro
gghideki [2k\]: ie, 18 GHz
joxn [-\]: I keep forgetting the exact details of MF but it's \
a 12-core Xeon (2 6-core processors) with 24 GB ram
joxn [-\]: for consistency?
gghideki [2k\]: Yes
joxn [-\]: we did scaling tests and MF definitely benefits from \
all the extra cores
gghideki [2k\]: but it's not necessary, because this tournament \
is not a part of annual championship]
WL[36746.109];B[bf]
C[pacopaco: it wont count>
pacopaco: ?
gghideki [2k\]: ?
pacopaco: i mean, it wont give the winner points for the anual \
score?
gghideki [2k\]: Not, AFAIK
gghideki [2k\]: *No]
BL[38945.367];W[eh]
C[agugglez [3k\]: joxn, are u another developer of many faces?
joxn [-\]: no, I run the hardware, do scaling tests
joxn [-\]: fotland and Microsoft have a deal where we provide \
him computer time on our clusters for big events
agugglez [3k\]: and what do u take in return?
joxn [-\]: good press. he lets us ship gtpmfgo for HPC Server.
joxn [-\]: we have some good demos
gghideki [2k\]: Going to lunch, c u
agugglez [3k\]: i see, thx for the info]
WL[36417.055];B[kn]BL[38676.504];W[mn]WL[36319.293]
;B[kl]BL[38509.07];W[jk]WL[35950.512];B[kk]BL[38283.348];W[jm]WL[35759.539];B[km]BL[38083.309];W[kj]WL[35603.535];B[nl]BL[37754.695];W[ol]WL[35434.562];B[nm]BL[37549.801];W[om]WL[35263.832]
;B[nn]BL[37335.914];W[po]WL[34954.93];B[cq]BL[36996.168];W[oo]WL[34856.48];B[bh]BL[36653.273];W[np]WL[34730.695];B[nq]BL[36352.875];W[mq]WL[34570.137];B[mr]BL[36021.152];W[op]WL[34241.473]
;B[pr]BL[35841.656];W[bi]WL[34142.754];B[jj]BL[35482.844];W[ji]
C[ManyFaces2 [-\]: GTP Engine for ManyFaces2 (black): Many Faces \
of Go version 12 (2008 world champion), playing at level 1 kyu \
(19x19), 4 Dan (9x9). Uses Many Faces' knowledge combined with \
Monte Carlo evaluation. Free evaluation download at www.smart-games.com. \
iPhone/iPod Igowin app has this full engine.]
WL[33993.055];B[ij]BL[34930.777];W[dq]WL[33551.605];B[cp]BL[34693.625];W[do]WL[33403.062];B[bn]BL[34324.148];W[lj]WL[33303.473]
;B[ik]BL[33950.746];W[cm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Which will play Q18...]
WL[33203.926];B[jl]BL[33745.523];W[lr]WL[33079.57];B[qo]BL[33361.777];W[nr]WL[32979.871];B[gk]
C[joxn [-\]: the MF engine has q18 as its #2 move]
BL[32973.57];W[cr]
C[joxn [-\]: Lots of memory pressure
joxn [-\]: # b g9 : 63.7% win]
WL[32879.602];B[br]BL[32774.117];W[dr]WL[32778.887]
;B[fl]BL[32392.564];W[co]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 44.5%.  I believe W is losing]
WL[32677.793];B[bo]BL[32185.6];W[bs]WL[32412.072];B[bq]BL[31952.588];W[ap]WL[32072.654];B[bm]
C[joxn [-\]: # b b7 : 68.0% win]
BL[31732.217];W[bl]WL[31737.557];B[cl]BL[31491.059];W[bk]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 50.5%
gghideki [2k\]: How 'bout this semeai?]
WL[31406.057]
;B[cn]BL[31185.512];W[dm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 47.9%
fotland [?\]: looks good for black, one eye vs no eye
fotland [?\]: but I don;t think the last move hlped
fotland [?\]: 70.5%
fotland [?\]: but short PV, only 11 ply]
WL[31305.461];B[dl]BL[30812.223];W[em]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 54.9%
gghideki [2k\]: but expecting B will play Q18 :)
gghideki [2k\]: *would
gghideki [2k\]: *will]
WL[31204.256];B[el]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Zen thought D9 was best for B
fotland [?\]: f2 might be best now, to make an eye in sente
fotland [?\]: 69%
fotland [?\]: like in Japan, bot programs think they are winning
gghideki [2k\]: Ahaha]
BL[30585.197];W[fm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 51.3%, very critical move
fotland [?\]: greedy.  It wants to be able to attack the big group \
in the center
gghideki [2k\]: Yes, and increasing liberties, etc]
WL[30852.693];B[dh]
C[gghideki [2k\]: good move
gghideki [2k\]: Ah, too early?]
BL[30147.92];W[ch]
C[fotland [?\]: both sides give up on semeai
fotland [?\]: each probably thinks it wins
gghideki [2k\]: Ahaa
gghideki [2k\]: 53.0%
gghideki [2k\]: Focused on cutting F9?
gghideki [2k\]: If W B15 will be sente, B will get trouble at \
top left corner]
WL[30751.42];B[ir]
C[gghideki [2k\]: ?
fotland [?\]: not very likely.  maybe zen is thinking about saving \
the g14 cutting stone
fotland [?\]: this b move looks small.  making its center group \
safe
gghideki [2k\]: agree.  Possibly MF thinks it's enough to win]
BL[29849.633];W[am]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 58.5%
fotland [?\]: black looks doomed
fotland [?\]: but I thought MY would lose the game with czechbot \
too
gghideki [2k\]: MY?
fotland [?\]: 72%
fotland [?\]: MF
gghideki [2k\]: The game was very critical for MF
gghideki [2k\]: Did you find the bug in chasing?
fotland [?\]: no time to lok for bugs today.  had to work
fotland [?\]: I fixed a couple of bugs from the zen games in japan \
though
gghideki [2k\]: Oh, good and bad :)
fotland [?\]: on cgos 737 is the latest, and it is doing ok with \
4 cores against zen with 8 cores.
fotland [?\]: John found a bug too, to help it scale better
gghideki [2k\]: Oh
gghideki [2k\]: you mean 8c for 2x4c?]
WL[30649.922]
;B[hg]
C[gghideki [2k\]: It's a pc cluster of two quad cores
gghideki [2k\]: not SMP]
BL[29422.877];W[ig]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Ah, 49.1%
gghideki [2k\]: H13 is a big, good move
fotland [?\]: after h12 it can threaten j12 and d11
Hannoskaj [?\]: By the way, fotland, when you "correct a bug", \
is that always really a bug, and the bot is stronger without \
it, or can it be tweaking the evalutaion or something until it \
plays correctly a precise position?
gghideki [2k\]: D11 was in the PV 
fotland [?\]: I'm only search 6 or 7 ply PVs.  The tree has too \
many equal choices
fotland [?\]: sometimes I fix something for a position
fotland [?\]: sometimes I change a parameter
fotland [?\]: sometimes I find some code that is broken and doesn;t \
do what I thought it did
fotland [?\]: always I test to see if it makes the program stronger
gghideki [2k\]: Takes long time on 19x19 :(
fotland [?\]: I have a basic test, about 3000 games a day
fotland [?\]: tougher test is about 1000 games a day
fotland [?\]: so not so bad
gghideki [2k\]: Wow, how many playouts for a game?
fotland [?\]: 1000 or 81000 playouts per move
gghideki [2k\]: Sorry, for a move
Hannoskaj [?\]: Thank you!
fotland [?\]: 8000]
WL[30547.854];B[ih]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Oh, it takes really long time.  So you bought \
4 quad cores?
gghideki [2k\]: Ah?
fotland [?\]: hm.  offering a trade of the cutting stone dor a \
ponnuki in the center
gghideki [2k\]: Maybe
gghideki [2k\]: Zen will play D11 so cutting H12 is not so good]
BL[29049.629];W[di]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 47.4%
fotland [?\]: 70%
fotland [?\]: if black plays in the center, white will be very \
thin
gghideki [2k\]: W has bee very thin since the beginning :)
gghideki [2k\]: *been
gghideki [2k\]: not beginning but very early stage]
WL[30351.996];B[if]BL[28728.504];W[qn]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 48.8%
fotland [?\]: 71%
fotland [?\]: seems optimistic
fotland [?\]: probably some chance to win the lower left fight
fotland [?\]: and some chance to kill white even after white plays \
q18
gghideki [2k\]: Which will play Q18 again :)
LastAngel [8k?\]: simplebot = zen? why not playing with zen19?
fotland [?\]: I only have summary dta, so I don;t know if Q18 \
is considered
fotland [?\]: zen was late so the tournament didn;t let it in
fotland [?\]: so it took over for simplebot
gghideki [2k\]: THX David.
zapp [6d?\]: PNUGo is valkyria for the same reason
fotland [?\]: zen had a bad first games since simplebot already \
made a bad position.
fotland [?\]: first game
fotland [?\]: what if b plays o10 now?
fotland [?\]: maybe s5 is required to keep lower right safe 
LastAngel [8k?\]: ok thx
gghideki [2k\]: Zen will play O11, I guess
gghideki [2k\]: Also, C17 at top left
fotland [?\]: so b can play s5, o10, k13, or q18
gghideki [2k\]: K13 is not big now
gghideki [2k\]: W never escape, I think
fotland [?\]: after k13, does j17 capture the top?]
WL[30248.885];B[ro]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Even W plays K17 first, W can live?
fotland [?\]: yes, white can live, so k13 sente, then o10 to capture \
center
fotland [?\]: but s5 is correct.  save the corner first
gghideki [2k\]: agree
fotland [?\]: 69%
fotland [?\]: 14 ply PV
gghideki [2k\]: S5 is almost sente for W
fotland [?\]: yes.  I think b had to answer here
fotland [?\]: so white can play first in center, or q18
gghideki [2k\]: thinking H14
Hannoskaj [?\]: PV consists in moves simulated more than x times, \
or all the tree along max victory path?
fotland [?\]: h14, k13, g13, o10
gghideki [2k\]: It was hard before E11 due to dame-dumari of the \
4 stones
fotland [?\]: all the tree along max path
gghideki [2k\]: *D11
Hannoskaj [?\]: OK
fotland [?\]: sometimes pv is 20 ply, sometimes 4 ply
Hannoskaj [?\]: 4 ply is changing its mind very late?
gghideki [2k\]: h14 g13 k13, I guess
fotland [?\]: yes, I think so
fotland [?\]: I like h14, k13 better.  thicker for black
gghideki [2k\]: right]
BL[28317.873];W[hf]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 51.4% :)
gghideki [2k\]: before o10, how 'bout q11?
fotland [?\]: maybe, but then white q10, and white gets stronger
fotland [?\]: later can;t play R8 or some such invasion
gghideki [2k\]: I see thx
fotland [?\]: 1 am here.  I have to sleep
fotland [?\]: even though I want to watch to the end.
gghideki [2k\]: Good night
fotland [?\]: probaby over before I wake up
fotland [?\]: still a close game
fotland [?\]: bye
gghideki [2k\]: yes
gghideki [2k\]: bye]
WL[29913.059];B[jg]BL[27981.061];W[cb]WL[29774.342]
;B[cc]BL[27657.26];W[bc]WL[29405.805];B[bd]BL[27458.871];W[bb]
C[gghideki [2k\]: B19 was ko?]
WL[29213.447];B[ce]BL[27254.234];W[eb]WL[29019.854];B[ok]BL[27023.961];W[pk]WL[28668.439];B[nj]BL[26707.795];W[ad]WL[28412.145]
;B[dd]BL[26515.496];W[db]WL[28050.979];B[qh]BL[26193.141];W[oi]WL[27949.271];B[ni]BL[25973.072];W[oj]WL[27664.039];B[oh]BL[25748.473];W[ph]WL[27319.516];B[pg]BL[25554.977];W[pi]WL[27031.43]
;B[nk]BL[25285.324];W[og]WL[26699.195];B[nh]BL[25101.732];W[pf]WL[26595.275];B[qg]BL[24921.355];W[rf]WL[26493.678];B[qi]BL[24738.424];W[pj]WL[26391.604];B[rj]BL[24558.641];W[rk]WL[26288.756]
;B[pl]BL[24358.199];W[qk]WL[26185.307];B[on]BL[24159.598];W[ri]WL[25827.848];B[jr]BL[23979.385];W[pn]
C[pacopaco: the bots havent crashed even once?
JLackland [4k\]: I can't read the kibitz to the beginning
JLackland [4k\]: Looks like MF is winning
pacopaco: i think zen will win though
JLackland [4k\]: Let's see]
WL[25604.383];B[pm]
C[pacopaco: can we see the winning rates?
gghideki [2k\]: 56.9% for Zen
pacopaco: thx
pacopaco: zen havent crashed so far?
gghideki [2k\]: no]
BL[23714.477];W[qm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 59.3% but I don't think so...
zapp [6d?\]: I ran Valkyria on the previous position and it thinks \
White leads with about 8 points abd it also chose wR7
gghideki [2k\]: Hah, thx]
WL[25308.195];B[ql]BL[23534.527];W[rl]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 53.8%]
WL[24979.535]
;B[rm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: s6 n4 m5 don't work?
zapp [6d?\]: s7 is clever now Bm5 cannot catch the cut at Wn4
gghideki [2k\]: how to save lower W
gghideki [2k\]: ?]
BL[23364.207];W[rn]WL[24658.287];B[mp]
C[zapp [6d?\]: Valkyria is now 45% for white and cannot see any \
way to save the stones on the lower side
zapp [6d?\]: It also has some problems to find the cut at N4, \
but when it finds it quickly focus search on it.]
BL[23196.646];W[mo]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 44.8%]
WL[24508.027];B[lp]BL[23029.717];W[no]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 25.3%]
WL[24124.881];B[jc]BL[22841.221];W[ng]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 48% !]
WL[23940.039];B[mg]BL[22673.961];W[mf]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 52.6%...]
WL[23838.111]
;B[sn]
C[gghideki [2k\]: ?]
BL[22349.703];W[sm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 50.7%]
WL[23502.699];B[ae]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Zen also prefered A15]
BL[22104.297];W[lg]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 51.7%]
WL[23401.072];B[mh]BL[21945.408];W[lo]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 51.1%]
WL[23105.828];B[kp]BL[21786.363];W[ne]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 49.7%]
WL[22977.715];B[oe]
C[zapp [6d?\]: Valkyria now thinks black has a 10 point lead]
BL[21474.824];W[le]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 53.0%]
WL[22831.551]
;B[sf]
C[zapp [6d?\]: The exchange of B p15 for W M15 must have been bad. \
or do I overlook something?]
BL[21302.299];W[sg]
C[gghideki [2k\]: Maybe MF is optimistic
gghideki [2k\]: 55.7%
gghideki [2k\]: T14 seems also a bad move...]
WL[22505.623];B[se]BL[21141.584];W[sd]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 50.8%
gghideki [2k\]: M12 clearly big
gghideki [2k\]: Can B T18 kill W?]
WL[22402.914];B[pb]
C[zapp [6d?\]: I think W can play Q19 if black played T18]
BL[20839.199];W[qb]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 55.3%
gghideki [2k\]: Oh, thanks Magnus]
WL[22299.436];B[oa]
C[zapp [6d?\]: Valkyria thinks black is ahead 5 points after W R18 \
P19 T18 M12]
BL[20642.535];W[sb]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 52.4%]
WL[22062.076];B[lh]BL[20491.42];W[kg]WL[21958.455]
;B[kh]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 52.3%]
BL[20314.402];W[so]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 52.1%
gghideki [2k\]: Oh, S4 is risky
gghideki [2k\]: B has to play P1?
gghideki [2k\]: *P2]
WL[21798.057];B[or]BL[20095.748];W[sp]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 51.6%]
WL[21694.049];B[rq]
C[zapp [6d?\]: I think s4 is better than P2. Perhaps manyfaces try \
to play safe now.]
BL[19879.061];W[fr]WL[21589.076];B[eq]
C[gghideki [2k\]: I think W play s2 after s4 and ko  (?)
gghideki [2k\]: 48.5%]
BL[19732.484];W[er]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 44.4%]
WL[21228.133];B[hl]BL[19450.309];W[hm]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 43.8%
gghideki [2k\]: -6.5 pt
zapp [6d?\]: Valkyria agree]
WL[20860.725]
;B[ib]BL[19172.145];W[ke]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 37.4%
gghideki [2k\]: -6.3pt]
WL[20440.492];B[gb]BL[18982.287];W[kc]
C[gghideki [2k\]: 43.8%, -4.2pt
JLackland [4k\]: Looks close, but I would take B if I had to chose
JLackland [4k\]: As if B's territory has more solid grounds]
WL[20083.844];B[kb]BL[18710.748];W[fb]WL[19980.76];B[kd]BL[18443.146];W[ld]WL[19581.027];B[lc]BL[18271.248];W[hb]WL[19352.768]
;B[hc]BL[18127.229];W[ga]WL[18980.072];B[of]BL[17867.947];W[nf]WL[18612.879];B[me]BL[17612.32];W[lf]WL[18252.463];B[je]BL[17483.324]
(;W[md]WL[17902.568];B[kf]
C[zapp [5d?\]: That is a huge ko! 
zapp [5d?\]: Black has local ko threat at S12 so I thin zen will \
resign now
maproomad [-\]: "internal"
zapp [5d?\]: Good game!
Hannoskaj [?\]: Nice finish! Congratulations to David Fotland \
for when he wakes up!]
LB[je:25][md:26]
BL[17399.77])
(;W[rg]))
